AI Can’t Touch This: The EQ Advantage

 Yohance Harrison talks with Kyle DeBell of Think2Perform about behavioral financial advice, AI in financial planning, and why human connection still matters most. They dig into values-based decision-making, neuroscience, advisor coaching, and how technology can help advisors listen better instead of replacing relationships. Kyle shares practical insight on the BFA designation, using CRM and AI tools well, and why clients need empathy during stressful money moments. This Only Human episode is for financial advisors, planners, and wealth professionals who want to combine behavioral finance, better conversations, and modern tech without losing the human side of advice.

Linkedin- Kyle Debell

Even More Than Money: https://www.amazon.com/Even-More-Than-Money-Financial/dp/1804091243/ 

Website: https://www.think2perform.com/

BFA Page: https://www.think2perform.com/behavioral-financial-advice-program/

Values Exercise: https://www.think2perform.com/values/

Transcript

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Yohance: Kyle, what's up man? How are you bro?

Kyle: I'm doing great, Yohance. How about yourself, man?

Yohance: I'm doing amazing. So you, you were telling me just before I hit the button that you just kind of took a trip all over the world. Well, United States anyways, spreading the love of behavioral financial advice. So you said you were at the LPL conference, the Ameriprise conference. I feel like you mentioned one more. Was there one more in there?

Kyle: That was all the conferences. I did have a personal, somewhat personal trip in there where I made a values based decision to take my daughter up to a YMCA camp and be quite uncomfortable working for a week. But well worth it. It was for her and she had the time of her life.

Yohance: Oh, that's awesome. A values based decision. I love that. We're going to talk a lot about those today. So I just, I want to start with just saying that I, I know I didn't put my titles and stuff in my name there because it gets a little long, but I am a behavioral financial advisor as well. Most of you that are listening there's audience are aware of that because I've mentioned it several times and Kyle is actually one of the leaders in the nation on helping advisors get their behavioral financial advice designation. So a behavior financial advisor designation. So we're going to spend some time digging into BFA and, and what it means to be a BFA and why be a bfa? But my, what I'm really intrigued about with BFA is the how BFA is showing up for in. In this more technical world where if, I mean every day you go on LinkedIn there is another post of about AI finding its way into financial planning financial advice. There are now AI trading apps that will trade for you. There's AI financial planning apps. Advisors are using AI for their financial planning. You can build stuff on Claude. I took one of those courses, it's kind of fun. Then you have, of course you have Zo. You have, I think Savvy just announced whatever they're doing. Not to downplay Savvy, I just don't know what it is. Then there's. What's the other one? Jump. Jump. Of course. Hazel. How could I forget Hazel, but Jump and Hazel. I mean just everybody. Wealthbox has their own AI tool. I'm surprised E Money doesn't have their own AI tool yet. It's probably coming.

Kyle: I bet it's coming.

Yohance: Yeah. Nitrogen has an AI tool. Morningstar has. Everyone has an AI tool right now. So it's, it's becoming very ubiquitous. In the, in the space. But as I've mentioned many times before, this is about staying human because at the end of the day we are human advisors making a connection with the human client. So, so let's dig into that a bit. So let's just start with the origins of bfa. So Kyle, you might share with us the where did BFA come from?

Kyle: Yeah, that's a great question. And BFA, we, we've been teaching behavioral finance for boy over 25 years now. We start, or should say about 25 years. Think to Perform will be celebrating its 25th year here next year. But it's really from at least our version and how we talk about it and use it from Doug Lunick, Doug Lennox, our CEO here at Think to Perform. And he's always focused in on that EQ side decision making, values based decisions, whatever it may be throughout his career. And he brought that into Think to Perform and created a course on it. And the course is really focused on the application of behavioral financial advice. And it's so interesting what you were just saying about technology.

Yohance: Tech.

Kyle: I'm actually excited about technology. I think all advisors should be excited about technology because it really frees them up to, to not have to do the tedious tasks. The things that I don't know, I would probably say every advisor does not like doing, taking notes, all of that stuff. It really just condenses it into one thing now. I also think it's a bit of a double edged sword though. As you mentioned, we were, I was at a couple of different conferences and behavioral finance was a buzz, but so was technology. And the thing that worries me is that advisors are going to start using the tech so they can work less, so they can be more efficient. And what I, what I see happening there, we're kind of at a crossroads. People are either going to be more efficient, people are going to be more efficient, but it's going to be efficient. And hey, I don't have to work as much. I can serve my clients the same or I can be more efficient and serve my clients deeper. And those are the people that I really think are going to win here in the future. People who can say, hey, I don't have to do any of this so I can spend more time with my clients on what's most important to them, how to help them become better humans, better people, make better decisions. And getting back to behavioral finance, that's where we spend our time. As you know, you're a bfa, we really focus on the application. It's not how to create a better plan, any of that stuff. It's how you can help your clients make better decisions more often around their values. And that's what we focus on. Again with the behavioral financial advisor designation.

Yohance: So can we talk about the. The components of behavioral finance? So you mentioned values is a piece of it. What are the other components of behavioral finance?

Kyle: Yeah, great question. How we look at behavioral finance, and there are a variety of different definitions out there, and it's. This is just the way that we look at it. We have both tradition or it's a component of three things. Traditional finance, neuroscience in psychology, and how we can bring all of those together to enhance the plan. We're not replacing anything that advisors are already doing. We're enhancing what they're doing to make sure that they can connect deeper with their clients.

Yohance: Let's talk about neuroscience. That word sounds fun. For those that haven't heard the term before, what is neuroscience and how does it apply today? Or how does it apply to an advisor and what we do?

Kyle: Yeah, so I am the furthest thing from a neuroscientist. We actually do have somebody who went to school for neuroscience on our team. But really, the way that I boil it down, it's why people do what they do and how they make decisions. So one thing that we know to be true, and this. This absolutely blew me away, is the speed at which an outside emotion or an outside event can affect the human body. And when we talk about behavioral finance, we just kind of get in on, like, this is what happens. So an outside stimulus enters the body, and people start emoting, they start reacting. They, you know, cortisol is produced, whatever it may be. If it's a positive or negative stressor, it doesn't matter. In. I believe it's like 3 to 5 milliseconds. The body's already starting to. And you don't know it. No, people don't know that that's happening. And if you think about that, just to put that into contents, the blink of an eye is 300 milliseconds. So both very, very, very fast. But what happens is, you know, then the body starts again. It starts doing things, promoting hormones, cortisol, whatever it may be, to start gearing up to react to that outside event. What we do with behavioral finance is. It's kind of funny. Doug always says this is. It helps make stupid optional. I hear it all the time that you need to. People need to control their emotions. They need to do this, they need to do that with their emotions, which is actually impossible to control your emotions, but you can control what you do with them. So you start becoming stressed, you have that self awareness and then how you move forward. Again, stupid optional.

Yohance: I was just thinking about a scenario where I was impacted by something that happened and how fast I emotionally reacted and then how it changed the outcome of like things for the next 30 or 40 minutes because I just allowed that moment to just affect me in a way. And well, two examples. One doesn't relate to finance at all. The other is directly, which I'm sure some advisors can relate to, is I had a, a potential client show up to a meeting completely unprepared, documents not signed, no data uploaded, hadn't created their profile on my financial planning tool, nothing. And then proceeded to pick apart my contract. And yeah, I stood firm. And I said, you know, I, I see you didn't take any time to read anything over the last six weeks since we last met. And I said, let's do both of us a favor. Let's reschedule for next week and give you some time to read this over. And the potential client agreed and said that that would be fine. Let's do that. And then I get an email the night before the session again with the same questions about the contract. And Kyle, I've come to a point in my career where I don't need new clients. I appreciate them, but don't need them. And most of my clients come from referral. And so there was a part of me that said, you don't really trust me. And you came highly rec. You came recommended from a, from a very reputable source who's been working with me for over a decade. I would think that this source has given you some information. And, and to add insult to injury, the person was actually referred to me three years ago.

Kyle: Oh wow.

Yohance: So there was three years of procrastination to finally get on my schedule. And so I basically sent an email that said, you know what? It's, it's either you're going to do it the way that we talk about. Because it was questions of the questions were do I have to provide you with all my statements? Do I have to connect all of my accounts? I only want help with this. Why do I have to do this? Why do I need to sign this part of the contract? I said, you know what? Maybe I'm not for you. And when I said, when I typed it and I hit send immediately the cortisol levels came down.

Kyle: Yours.

Yohance: And I felt minded and I felt so much better that because at first I was. There's part of me that took a little offense, like, why am I going through all this? You know? And I allowed myself to get a little worked up about it. And when this prospective client showed up for the, for the session the next day just started off with, did you see my email? Oh, I did. Okay. Well, I still see you haven't done any of the things that I ask you to do to prepare for this. Well, I just didn't really feel comfortable with this. With. Well, you know what? I don't think I'm the right advisor for you.

Kyle: Yeah. So that's really.

Yohance: So so good. So good. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Kyle: No, I, I have a question for you then, because I know that you're big on values. You. You spend a lot of time with the values exercise.

Yohance: Yes. She didn't do the values exercise. Nothing. The values. None of that was done.

Kyle: That was going to be. My next question was, did that person do the values exercise? Because a lot of times. And you say this a lot. I say this a lot, at least is that if the why isn't compelling, the how and the what don't matter.

Yohance: Don't matter.

Kyle: So there was something. There was something there that was holding that individual back from doing that, and it was emotion. Maybe. Maybe they had a poor experience with an advisor in the past. I don't know. It was like.

Yohance: No, no, no. That was explained in that final call, the apprehension. Because I said, where is this coming from? And the feedback was there was a situation that happened in the past where they were taken advantage of and they don't want that to happen again. Okay, Fair. I understand it. I respect that. Let me talk. I'm happy to talk you through the security protocols that we put in place and, and why you don't have to share your statements. You can actually just connect your accounts and then I don't see account numbers, but you got to choose one of those routes. Or you can, you know, take a black mark and black out the account numbers, but that's what you're afraid of. But again, you're referred from someone that's been my client for a decade.

Kyle: Sure.

Yohance: So if you couldn't pick up on some of the trust from that person, and you've been in my system for three years getting my emails, so if, if, if you couldn't borrow some trust, like there's. I don't think it's that.

Kyle: Yeah.

Yohance: And the, the first, the first thing to. Well, you put your name and your email address on my, My goals Worksheet, name, email address. And the next thing you do is the values. I can see that you open the document. I can also see how much time you spend on the document. I don't know what question. I could go in further to figure out where you fell off on the questionnaire. But I do know I never got that alert from thing to perform that you someone else completed their values. I didn't get that alert. So. So again there was a break. But it was again, like I said, the cortisol. As soon as I was able to say what's really to think about my own values and what's important for me, what's important for the. For the firm as far as sticking to values. As soon as I allowed myself to do that, all of a sudden my stress level came way down. Now, really quickly, I'll tell you something. Not related to clients too much, but it did affect my day. I think it's one of the biggest adult fails of them all. No, it's not forgetting to pick up your kid from camp or something like that. We all know. Missing trash day. Kyle. I missed trash day last week.

Kyle: Okay.

Yohance: And we had some smelly trash. And so we don't have bins here yet. They're working on it. They're coming soon. So our trash is just. It's hot. Exactly. And it's in our garage. And so the trash is there. Monday was trash day. And my brain just poof. And that trash had to sit there for four more days in the 110 degree heat. Cortisol level spiked. Just the frustration. And then I carried that frustration with me throughout the rest of my Monday.

Kyle: Sure

Yohance: caused my one on ones to be off because I usually want on ones on Monday. Whatever. Everything I was doing on Monday just felt like a failure because I never in on that Monday morning. I never took that freeze moment to pause.

Kyle: Yep.

Yohance: To reflect. To even try to troubleshoot problem solve on what are some other options I have besides letting the trash funk its way up in the garage? I mean technically I probably could have bagged it in some. You know, I got those big contractor bags from when we do yard work and stuff. Maybe I could have re bagged it, set it on the side of the house. But no, instead I decided to sulk and allow it to just fester for four more days. Now Thursday morning trash was out first thing. But that, that Monday. Oh man.

Kyle: Well, it's. It's a really interesting concept. There is that, you know, one thing that we teach in behavioral financial advice. And again, you've experienced. This is, it starts with you. So how well you lead and manage yourself has everything to do with how well you lead and manage others. And everyone's human, everyone makes mistakes. You've been doing this. I've watched your podcast. It was awesome. When you shared a stage with me and I introduced you. I shouldn't say share the stage at our conference. I feel like I know you and that is uncharacteristic. But it happens. It happens to everyone. And it's one of those things again, that's where technology is going to play a huge role. So you have that client that comes in. Let's switch roles. Let's say you had that client that missed trash day, and now they have to deal with that awful trash for another four days a week, whatever it is, before they have the opportunity to get rid of it again. And they show up to your office and it's like, whoa, this person's off. And it could be somebody like the client that you had, that you've had for 10 years. And you're like, all right, this isn't you. And you have this long list where I, I hear it from advisors all the time where they're like, I can't do this, I can't spend time on the values or I can't, I can't talk about all this soft stuff. I have, all this stuff I have to cover. But that's just what it is. It's stuff. And if you can help that client almost get out of their own way, get back in that, that proper headspace to make good decisions, you know, the, the value of an advisor is almost a, going to be a coach in the future. And it doesn't, you know, the, the finance piece is big. But again, if, if you can help that, that individual become a better decision maker. And what I think that, you've know, the BFA provides a ton of value and is helping your clients become better decision makers. When you, so when you start, you know, having that self awareness, reflecting on values, whatever it may be, when you're making decisions and, and again, coming back into the finance side and people get emotional. And the interesting thing is it's not always bad. You know, obviously when the market crashes, there's that negative emotion. But I'm sure you've dealt with this, especially with the, the people that are on your, your client list. Somebody gets a raise, somebody gets a promotion, they get a new job, they just started making ten, fifteen, a hundred thousand dollars more per year. That exuberance is going to show up. Hey, I need to go buy the car. The second house, whatever it may be. They go out, they do it. Hey, Johans, I just bought this. And you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We need to pump the brakes a little bit. I'm sure you had that happen.

Yohance: I'm dealing with one right now.

Kyle: Yeah. And it's one of those things again, it's, it's emotion, and it doesn't matter if it's positive or negative. It's what you do with it. So, again, helping your clients become better decision makers when you're not present. And that's not an overnight task, but that, so if you can spend the time doing that, you're going to have even more time in the future because people aren't going to be calling, panicking when the market's down or, hey, Johans, I just got a raise. We need to sit down and figure out what I should do with this. This. All right. Perfect. And I'm sure knowing you, it would be like, well, tell me what you're going to be doing. The bunny stuff can wait. We're going to get to that. What's the new job? What's the new.

Yohance: What's the new job? What's the new role? Yeah, tell me about the negotiation for the, the income. Actually, I'm expecting a call today. I had a conversation with a prospective client who wasn't quite ready for our services yet. And I knew that in August she was up for a very significant income raise. And I'd had conversations with her about it. And so I reached out to. On Friday, like, hey, didn't want anything, just wanted to check in. I know it's a, A big month for you. Yeah, actually, Monday is the big day. I was like, oh, okay. How are negotiations going? Start talking about the negotiations she've been having about this salary increase and how she's feeling really good about it and said, and I, I can't wait to pay off my debt and, and, and just start investing. Like, this is awesome. This is good. So I'm excited to hear from her today because I know it's happening in a couple hours. That, that's awesome. Callback. But at the same time, I've also had the conversations with some other individuals where I find about. Out about the rays after the fact. And sometimes those that are, that have. We've done a better job of helping them understand behavioral finance and reacting versus pausing and giving it some thought first. They're able to share, you know, I got that bonus. I got the raise. And I've done nothing. It's just. It's just sitting there. I wanted to talk to you first. Here are some of my ideas.

Kyle: Sure.

Yohance: And then there's also those. And say, oh, yeah, I got the bonus and I got a Mercedes. It's like, okay, let's talk about this college fund for your child that you said was high on your goal list. We're going to continue to put that off. Okay. All right. Well, I guess maybe they'll just drive the Mercedes to college. I guess I don't. But. But it's. It is a. It is a learned behavior to, as an advisor to be able to. To. To steer the conversation away from sometimes the transactional pieces of what we do. The let's take your 401k from 4 to 5% or let's choose this fund or that fund, or let's implement this life insurance or whatever the. The financial plan may call for. To have that conversation about what is it that you value? What are you feeling? Or when you. Or when you were in this situation before, what did you feel? Or what were some of the thoughts that you had? I like to ask couples, tell me about the pillow talk. What are those two. What are the things the two of you were discussing outside of me and where. How did you come to those conclusions? Or what. Or what will. Or encouraging them to have the pillow talk. Like, hey, let's. Let's not decide this right now and, and don't decide it in front of me.

Kyle: Yeah.

Yohance: Before you sleep on it, talk about it. I'm not going to tell you how to run your marriage. But, you know, let's have a conversation. We. We refer to them as money date. Have a little money date about it.

Kyle: Sure.

Yohance: And then come back to me and then I'll give you my two cents. But I don't want. I don't want to plant any seeds right now. I want you to plant your own seeds to see what you can grow on your own before I just give you the answers. Because the truth is I don't really. I don't have the answers on half the stuff at all. I don't. The answers are inside of. You have the answers. I'm just here to guide you to what the financial implications will be of the answers that you select. Let me get off my soapbox on that, Kyle. I want to. I want to transition just to back to tech a bit.

Kyle: Yeah.

Yohance: Because I've been doing something, having some fun with, and I want to know if. Am I alone? Are there others out there? Have you heard of others doing this as well. So all of our AI tools, whether you're using Jump or using Zox or using Hazel or any of the core AI tools that will do. They'll answer questions, also look into your meetings and give feedback and do the meeting recordings and all that fun stuff. You can prompt them for feedback. What I've done with my tool is I've prompted it with my values. I've also prompted it to pull the client values from the conversation because it hears me talk about it. It's in the notes somewhere. Then I'll ask it every now and then, how am I doing with sticking to my values? How is the client doing what's sticking to their values? And pull some components of behavioral finance into it. Kyle, it's incredible, the data that I'm getting back. Am I the only one that's just pushing it to these limits?

Kyle: No, there's.

Yohance: Okay. I didn't want to be original.

Kyle: Well, the thing that I struggle with there is I wish more people were doing that again, using the tool to. To gain client data. But how can you get better again? Dougl always says there's no end to better. I couldn't agree with that more. Always refining your approach, you know, trying to pick up little tips and tricks or whatever it may be, how you can better serve your clients. And I did meet with a gentleman named Liam. This was about a year ago with Jump AI. And he was showing me how he could. You could actually do exactly what you're doing and. And grade yourself. And. And I've heard this from so many people, and it was on, you know, multiple stages that I was at, from the conferences they were at of how people are like, oh, yeah, my clients do all the talking. They're the majority. And then they get the report, and it's not even close.

Yohance: Not even close.

Kyle: Not even close. Not even close.

Yohance: My favorite one is. Is measuring how long you pause before answering a question. It is. You have to be really, really, like, purposeful to improve that number. Because again, we get asked as advisors, oh, how much can I put to my Roth IRA? 7,500. Yeah, the answer. I know the answer. 8, 500 or 86. 8,600. Whatever it is, if you're over 50, 50 years old versus the pause,

Kyle: how

Yohance: much can you put into it this year? Clarifying the question just for you or for you and your wife? Do you want to put it in monthly? You know, asking a clarifying question and then bringing an answer? Or even. Well, I mean, you. You can contribute an unlimited amount into your Roth ira? If we're converting.

Kyle: Yeah.

Yohance: You're talking about a direct contribution. That's a little bit different or. Well, do we think your income versus just spitting on an answer.

Kyle: So I have a question for you. Sorry. Sorry to interrupt this. My. My brain just gets to working. Have you asked it to measure the length of the pause after you ask a question?

Yohance: No, I don't think I have. I think I just have it measuring the length of the pause after they asked me a question.

Kyle: Because it's so interesting. A lot of times, you know, when you. When you ask a question, a lot of times if there's that little bit of silence that advisors will just start to interject or put in more information because silence is very uncomfortable.

Yohance: Oh, I love silence.

Kyle: And a lot of times it's just that client processing. So just letting them sit with that. Sometimes, like when it's a hard question or an uncomfortable question, just. Just waiting. And I'm curious. I'd be interested to see, because I feel like a lot of times I've heard this before, and I couldn't disagree with this anymore, but I've heard advisors literally say, it's my job to tell the clients what they need to do with their money. At the end of the day, I'm like, I don't know about that. I mean, to. To a certain extent, but it's. It's more like you said, and you. There was a word that I want to pull out about guiding them, bringing them down. It's not your job to. To make the decision. It's their job. At the end of the day, you're just guiding them on what. The options and choices that they have to try to figure out something that makes the most sense to them. But a lot of times that I'd be intrigued if you did that to see, like, what your. What the pause rate was. And it's probably difficult because there are questions that, you know, it's immediate because it's a quick question, but when they, you know, they really have to think about, like, how long is the pause? How long is the silence?

Yohance: Yeah, I'm gonna have to look into that and see. I know. I mean, the tool can do it. These tools do whatever you tell them to do, which is great.

Kyle: It's unreal.

Yohance: So let's talk about the future. So, as I mentioned, we have AI that can now do a lot of analysis on the conversations that we're having with clients. I challenge advisors that are using these meeting recorder tools and gaining the feedback Prompt your feedback to go a little bit deeper on the EQ side. You get a lot of the IQ stuff and you know, how much do they make and, and what's going into retirement and all those fun things. But see if you can get yours to skew a little bit more to the EQ side to learn a little bit more about the emotional items that are happening inside of that client meeting. But I'm curious, Kyle, where do you see the future of BFA and the intersection of AI and tech?

Kyle: Yeah, it's a great question. In my belief, my opinion, and we had alluded to this earlier, is really spending more time with the client on what matters most to them. And the one thing that we know about tech is it always needs an input and it's going to put out. I mean, you can go to, you know, the robos or whatever it may be and they are going to give you the best, the, the best advice or information as it pertains to the numbers, what's been put in. And there's, there's something that, there's a big issue with that, that, that I have. And I, I was speaking with an advisor. This was a couple months ago. Now. He had, he had a husband and wife client. They were both teachers, they both had pension set up for themselves. So they worked their whole careers, they retired while the husband, his. And I don't know, you would probably know more about this than I would, but his pension had shifted to where it wasn't. I think somebody else, somebody, another company had bought out the pension or whatever it may be, and his funds were invested and he wasn't guaranteed a specific dollar amount for the rest of his life until he passed. So he went to his advisor. He was in his 60s.

Yohance: Oh yeah, just happened, I just got, just had. It just happened to a client. Their 401A, which was essentially a pension, was being shut down and switching to a 403B. Yeah, like. Yes, sorry.

Kyle: Yes. So. No, you're good. I appreciate that because now I know when I can actually tell this story with a little bit more knowledge. You're buying it.

Yohance: But.

Kyle: So he was, I think he was like 68 years old. And the advisor was going through the numbers and he's like, I want to start taking my Social Security now. And the advisor's like, well, let's, let's run the numbers here. Let's take a look at this. And the numbers said, no, you have to wait. And he said, you know, we ran the numbers and it says we should wait till you're 72. Let. Let's wait. Let's just, you know, trust me, this is the best thing that we could do. And the client had been a client of his for a long time, and he had paused. He said, okay, yep, that's fine. We can, we can do that. Let's see what happens. Met with him again six months later. And the first thing he said in the meeting was, I want to. I want to start. The first thing I want to talk about today is starting to withdrawal Social Security. And he's like, okay, this is what we talked about last time. You know, we had said that the numbers would wait. Let's revisit your values. Revisited the values. One of his values was security. Now, with that value, he started to look back at the plan and he said, okay, this doesn't make sense to do this by the numbers, but my client is clearly stressed about this. They're losing sleep. He had mentioned, he's like, I. I can't sleep. Like, I just. This, this uncertainty is keeping me up at night. We need to make it. We need to make a change. So what the advisor did was he actually looked at it, redrew some things in the plan, and said, okay, we can do this. Let's start taking Social Security. Now. That client was so happy taking less money at an early date because he was getting that guaranteed amount every single month. He had put 40 years in, thinking, okay, I'm going to get this dollar amount. This is what I'm gonna get. That changed. It was. It was causing, I wouldn't say panic, but a ton of uneasiness in that client's life. Yeah, anxiety. So, you know, when you start to look at tech, when you start to look at the numbers, that. That's one thing, but it's knowing your client, knowing that, hey, that if they would. Had a robot, would it just keep spinning back out? Nope. No, no, wait, wait, wait. But because he knew the client, he knew the client's values, what was most important to them, he was able to retool the plan a bit to give him that peace of mind. Okay, you're going to take Social Security. You are guaranteed this amount of money. Let's move on with the plan. Let's, you know, figure out where the next vacation is or what you're going to do. So, you know, I. I think that's where behavioral finance is going to have a huge impact. I also think the big thing that's gonna. Gonna play very large in the industry is this transfer of wealth that's coming.

Yohance: It's not coming. No, it is. No, it is not coming. It is here.

Kyle: It's here, but it's not here to the point where it's making a big difference, in my opinion. Okay, so as you know, I think, what is it, like 80 of widows leave their advisor, and then you start looking at. I think there's, you know, what did I just see? It's like 105 trillion that's going to change hands between now and 2048, and most of that's going to go to millennials and younger. And if you think about that, I mean, I'm 40 and I'm kind of on the, the cusp of millennials, at least in my opinion. But I mean, what is, what does everyone my age and younger want? They want it right here at their fingertips, what it is, what's quick, what's easy. And again, that causes anxiety at that as well. The market drops, they look at their phone. Oh, my gosh, what do I do? I need to sell.

Yohance: Yeah. Wait till they start inheriting all these old fixed annuities and whole life policies that still want paperwork.

Kyle: Exactly.

Yohance: Oh, my gosh.

Kyle: It's exactly.

Yohance: I've got some millennials right now that are in that situation and I have to sign a piece of paper. Like, that's.

Kyle: Yes. Yeah.

Yohance: We can't do this online.

Kyle: No, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's so interesting. I mean, that, actually, you know, unfortunately, that, that happened to me and, you know, the story, but three years ago in March, my, My mother was killed in a car accident, and my youngest daughter was in the car with her.

Yohance: Oh, my gosh.

Kyle: And story. Yeah. And there, I mean, I, I'm, I'm coming to terms and it's, it's never going to be easy for me to tell, but it's starting to have an impact. And how, you know, my mom was a very positive person and she wanted to make a positive impact on everyone. And if this story can make a positive impact on people, then it's a win for me because it would be a win for her. And, you know, thinking back on that, there was a variety of emotions that come along with that, feelings, obviously. But there's something that I'll, I'll never forget. And it was, you know, once I realized that my mom didn't have a huge savings, whatever it may have been, it wasn't small. But I did not want the tech. I wanted to talk to someone. I wanted that personal, like, what do I do? And one thing that had happened is my mom actually worked for Think to form. She. She helped me out with the bfa, renewals, all of those things, customer service. And her advisor knew that. I won't say who he was, who he was with, it doesn't matter. But I had never met him. I'm my mom. I was my mom's only child. Never met him. And his assistant had reached out to me. She's like, hey, your mom's advisor would like to connect with you. Said, okay. And I. I already. I have a great relationship with my advisor. You know, Shannon, she's awesome. But I was already. Yeah, yeah, I was. I was working with her. And, you know, I. I had planned to move the money, but I started having a conversation with him. And. And this is. I will never forget this conversation. This is exactly how the conversation went. Hey, Kyle, I'm really sorry to hear about your mom. She was a great person.

Yohance: She.

Kyle: She was very positive. She was a great client of mine, and I'm going to miss her. And, you know, my condolences go out to you and your family. Now, I have a few questions for you on what your risk tolerance may be. Oh, that was it. That was so. And I. I stopped and I said his name, and I said, I just want to let you know I'm not keeping a penny with you. I was so shocked at that. And he started a backpedal, and his assistant was on the phone, and I. He's like, well, you know, she was a client for a long time. Her friends are clients. I'm like, that doesn't matter. I was like, you've never met me. You have no idea who I am. I just had the biggest change in my life to date in a negative way. And we're 30 seconds in, and you're asking me risk tolerance questions. Now I share that story because that's happening. That is happening.

Yohance: That's the same thing the machine would do.

Kyle: Exactly. And that is so. And that's what concerns me because. And that's why I was saying the transfer of wealth is happening, but it's not causing that much pain yet. It's not where people are like, oh, my gosh, I just lost 10 clients this week. Because if you start to look back at it and you start to really connect with the client, when you have this extra time, it's, hey, I'm connecting deeply with the client, and I'm connecting deeply with the next generation. One thing that I recently heard was that things. The thing that is keeping boomers up at night right now isn't they're the, the next generation getting the money. It's, or even necessarily what they're going to do with it, it's where it came from and how they got it. So transferring the values of the inherited money to them, letting them know this is important. I mean, if you look at a lot of the boomers, you know, you know, a lot of them, the males spent 60 plus hours a week providing for the family. And then one of their values is family. And then you hear, you know, you hear them say that and the wife is like, wait a minute, you value family and you just spent 40, 45 years working 60 plus hours a week? Well, yeah, because my value was to put a roof over the head, food on the table, get them to college, all of those things. But again, that's what concerns me in the future is that how do you transfer those values and how do you, how do advisors keep clients? How do they keep them engaged? How do they get into that next level, that next generation? Because even though that next generation wants the tech, they also want to be seen and they want to be heard. They want to know, you know, the advisor needs to know their values and how to connect that transfer of wealth to what's most important to them, to go out and actually use it. So that, like, that's, that's in my opinion, where the BFA is going to just be a game changer. Selfishly, you know, I want it to happen sooner, but obviously, you know, that, that takes, you know, the transfer of wealth and unfortunately, that's usually a not positive event. So. But yeah, that's, that's where I see the industry going and the value that it can provide is, is connecting all those dots, spending more time with the person, finding out who they are and not saying who cares about the money and the X's and O's, but that'll come. I mean, again, you can, you can get a plan. I'm sure you could use your, Tell your clients, hey, go out and compare them. But it's like what you do. Yohance, you said something a long time ago that, that really stuck with me and I share this story a lot, is that, you know, AI can do a lot of things, but AI can't give you a hug.

Yohance: I knew that's where you're going. Oh, man.

Kyle: Yeah, I, I know. And it's just I, I share that with so many people and people will stop and be like, that's true. Like, I'm, I'm a human interacting with another human. And sometimes that's what you Need, I mean, tough situation like that, if you were to, you know, if somebody would have given me a hug during that situation, Unfortunately, Shannon's in Texas, I'm in Wisconsin, and she has given me a hug before. I'm not saying that that's not what it is, but it was just one of those things like, hey, you know, I need that human reassurance that everything is going to be okay in this dark time. And that's where, again, the value is going to be.

Yohance: I just thank you for that. And I challenge advisors out there that are having first conversations with prospects, whether they're referred or they're in Kyle's situation, the son or daughter of a client, whatever it may be. I challenge you. See if you can spend at least the first half of your intro conversation without talking about numbers. Try it. I challenge you. See how far you can go. Now, of course, you hop onto the conversation. Maybe the prospect brings the numbers up first. But see if you can get away from the numbers and see if you can go for which, if you proceed, let's say your first meeting's 30 minutes. See if you can spend 15 minutes without asking how much is in their 401k, without asking about their risk tolerance. If they bring up numbers, fine. But then take the conversation back to values and relationships and, you know, just their historical perspective on how they got to where they are, how they make their decisions, what's important to them in life. Not when do you want to retire? Everyone's going to say as soon as possible, most people anyway. But the question is, what do you want to do when you're financially independent? How do you want to spend your time? Who do you want to spend it with? That's a referral conversation right there. Say who do you want to do? And tell you all the people they love.

Kyle: Yeah.

Yohance: All of a sudden you're getting referrals without. Without even asking, and I'll share this. And I. I want to just bring this up because I recently started a new relationship with a client, and this is going to be a great client. I'm excited to have this individual as a client. And at the end of the conversation, the client, they said yes. And I just asked for a little bit of feedback. And I said, can you help me just understand what is leading you to say yes today? I'm just curious because the person, they shared a lot about how they've been interviewing financial advisors for a long time. And I said, what. What was different? Said, you're the first person that actually got to know Me? I'm like, how? I said, well, how many people did you meet? Oh, at least five. So you had five other financial planning conversations and you don't feel like any of them got to know you at all? They just, they. They see my income, I tell them about, you know, they. Because he started off with, hey, this is my income. This is how much money I have. This is what's in savings. And then they just go directly for the. What's your risk tolerance question.

Kyle: Yep.

Yohance: He said, I felt. I felt like you set all that aside. I was like, oh, well, don't get me wrong. The numbers are important. I said, but once you told me, they became less important to me because it was like, okay, well, I want to know who is this person that wants to have a 10, 15, 20 year relationship with me and how are we. What. What is, what is the thought process that got you to save all this money? What are you saving it for? Why are you doing the things that you do? Why are you working so hard? Why is it that you haven't been back home to see your parents in four years? And that's what I think actually won the business? So I, I challenge advisors out there. All right, okay, Kyle, we gotta have some fun. Okay, so I will admit to everyone out there, Kyle really tried it. He did. He tried to have a podcast pre call with me, and I had to say, kyle, I don't do those. We gotta just gotta be. It's gotta be raw. It's got to be natural. We gotta have fun. Which means now Kyle does listen to Only Human in the Money script podcast, so he may know what's coming here. So, Kyle, this is an episode of Only Human where we talk about staying human in this ever increasing AI world as an advisor, but with all this technology, we like to play a little game with our guests, and the game is known more professionally as marry, divorce, and maybe date on the side. So we're talking tech. So I want to know what is a technology that you are absolutely married to? You are not walking away from that technology. Y' all are together to death. Do you part? And then what is a piece of tech that you are probably going to file some divorce papers when you're going to hit that do not resubscribe button and end it. And then what's a piece of tech that you're starting to have a little. Some flirtatious coffee sessions with? All right, it could be any tech. I know you're not an advisor directly, but it can be any tech whatsoever.

Kyle: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm gonna. That's a good question. And I, I will start by saying I'm a. I'm not a huge tech person. So I've been in sales for 20 some years and I'm still the guy who's picking up the phone, writing emails, doing all those things. The tech that I'm start with, who I'm gonna date on the side because it's, you're know, I'm using more of it. This is going to sound, you know, rudimentary, but I, I'm starting to use more of the, you know, chat, GPTs. I'm going to get into the club, things like that because I, you know, I always. In this, this will go anywhere. You know, anyone who's getting into the tech. Like, I always thought that I could come up with the great email or the great call or pull from here, pull from there. And like six months ago I'm like, well, you know, we use. Think to perform. Uses a lot of the tech. So there's a lot of our stuff out there. I'm just gonna have to try it, right? Try writing an email for me. This is what I wanted to say. This is where I'm at, whatever it may be. I'm like, oh my gosh, that's way better than what I could come up with. So I'm using, I'm using more of that and I think it's gonna continue. What am I married to? This is. It is tech again, it's kind of old school. I am married to any sort of CRM. We use Salesforce. Part of it is just because, like, if you. Ray Kelly said something, you know, I'm probably gonna get this wrong too. But he had said, you know, goals are for people who like to win. Systems and processes are for people who like to win all the time. I, Yeah, I love Ray and I, yeah. Anyway, I don't. We don't need to go down that path. But I mean that, that's something that it keeps. It keeps me organized. It keeps me doing like all of the things that I need to do so I don't let things slip through the cracks. I get people all the time. They're like, you told me you were gonna call on August 24, six months ago, and you're actually doing it like, well, yeah, Kyle, you are.

Yohance: You are good for. Yes, Kyle, you are. You are.

Kyle: You're know, it's just I'm using what's. What's good to me. What? Divorce? Oh my gosh. I don't know. I guess I would, I would divorce my old habits around tech. What I think works. So a lot of times again, and I'm not a techie person, but like how I go about like looking for leads, I always think that they're just out there, that I can find them, that I can hunt them down and then I can get a conversation with them. And that's part of the reason why I'm doing more of what I'm doing now is like, hey, why don't I get people to come to me? Why don't I start getting out there talking about what I know and love with people who are awesome like yourself? It's like that, you know, hopefully, you know, I guess I'm laying some of my hand down here, but you know that that's, it's just a different way of doing things. So I guess I would, I would divorce my old habits.

Yohance: No. This is a shameless plug. Advisors Explore your BFA thinktopperform.com Explore it, look into it. I actually, I reached out to Kyle last week. I said, wait, are we having the conference this year? Because I wanted to talk about the conference. And he said, no, we took a year off, we're back next year. Yeah, but one of the best run conferences in the United States on financial planning. And, and again, you're going to, it's not the same as some of the other conferences. When you're getting into the, the, the specifics of the job as a financial advisor, this is more about you and how you think. And as was spoken of earlier, the convergence of the physiological effects that are happening inside your body. The neuroscience. What was the third one I missed the third one?

Kyle: Psychology.

Yohance: In psychology. Yeah, it's just, Yep. You, you will learn so much about yourself going through the behavioral financial advisor certification. Learn more about your relationship with money, your relationship with your partner. When it comes to money, it's, it's. And for anyone that, that has the CFP, think about the psychology of money part of CFP and multiply it by 10. Yeah, I walked in CFP. I was like, for that part. I was like, oh, I don't, I don't need to read the book. I mean I did just for the refresher, but I, I said, let me just skip to the test real quick. I skipped to the test. I was like, oh yeah, 80 something percent. Of course. Because I've been living, breathing the BFA thing though, for years now, since 2020. And I have to say, shout out to Bilal, little Bilal. Even though I've known Ray Kelly forever. He was one of my leaders. Twenty some odd years ago, Doug Linick was the CEO of IDS, what they call themselves IDs in investor, diversified, Syndicate, something, whatever. The old American Express Financial Advisors which is down Mayor prize. When I started with American Express, Doug was on his way out. So I got to meet Doug very early in my career. And even with all of that relationship that I had, Allen was my leader for a while. Doug's son, Alan Lennon. Even with all that connection, it took another friend come to me during COVID and said, bro, go get your bfa. Stop what you're doing and go get your bfa. I was like, what is a bfa? It's like behavior Financial advisor. He said, it's right up your alley. This is stuff you talk about all the time. You're gonna love it. And he sends me the link for think to perform. And I was like, this is my peoples.

Kyle: Yeah.

Yohance: And as soon as I got the materials, I was like, oh my goodness. This is exactly it was what I was is what I need. Especially going through Covid. I needed that. We all kind of need that back then, but I needed that reminder to get back to the why.

Kyle: Yeah.

Yohance: Because the why was so important. What and how. No one knew what now during COVID But I reconnecting to my why was so much so helpful during that time. And so I, I again shameless plug for Kyle and the BFA team. Look into it. Look into it.

Kyle: I appreciate that.

Yohance: The links will be in the show notes for if you want it. I'll even put the values exercise link in the show notes. Show notes. Be careful. Don't schedule a discovery session at the end because I am going to put my values.

Kyle: Hey.

Yohance: Kyle, if anybody wants to reach out to you directly, how can they find you?

Kyle: Yeah, you can go on our website. My email address is k. Debell@thinktopperform.com that's K D E B E L L at T H I N k the number 2 p e r f O R M I also as I mentioned, I still call people. You can call me. I can be reached at 262-206-2424. So call me, text me. I I like to talk. I'd love to have a conversation. So I call me old school, but that's fine.

Yohance: Last story about Kyle's old school. So Kyle randomly text me last summer and says, hey, do you have a minute? And at the time I had a minute, I said, sure. So my phone rings and I answer. So we just get to talking, and we're just going on and on and on. And at some point, Kyle asked me, like, where I am, what I'm doing. I was like, oh, I'm actually in London, hanging out with the fan. He's like, I'm so sorry you're in London. I said, no, no, no. I said, the wife and kids, they're. They're out doing their thing. I said, the fellows, we've just been sitting here drinking beers and watching football on the telly. I said, I didn't mind this at all. And we were on the phone for, like, 45 minutes.

Kyle: It's just. Yeah, I still remember it.

Yohance: Yeah. And it was. But it was so funny at the end. You were like, wait, you're in London? I was like, yeah. I was like, I have international calling. It's fine. It is. It's no big deal. So. But yes, no, Kyle is. Is. That's. That's one piece of tech. He's not divorcing anytime soon.

Kyle: No, no, no, no, no.

Yohance: Indeed. Well, hey, Kyle, thank you so much for joining us on today's episode of Only Human, a chapter of the Money script podcast. And I will see you at a conference soon, hopefully.

Kyle: Thanks for having me. I. I always enjoy our time together. Like I. Like you were saying, I remember that like it was yesterday. Great conversation. Still stick with a lot of things that I. I learned from that. But, yes, thank you for having me. And hopefully we can. We can do this again sometime.

Yohance: We will. It'll be on your podcast next time, though.

Kyle: Yes, we can do that.

Yohance: All right, sir. Take care.

Kyle: Thanks, y'. All. Appreciate it.

Yohance: All right. Good stuff.

Kyle: Yeah, that was awesome. Yeah. Yep. Let me know. I guess. How long before you think it comes out?

Yohance: Probably two weeks. I think we're about. I think we're about two in the can right now. So you got two shows ahead of you, but once it does, Jessica will send you the links, all that good stuff. The only thing I ask that you do is once. Excuse me. Once a conversation gets going on LinkedIn, you know, comment. And the best way to comment on LinkedIn is when you comment, call somebody else out that you want to bring into the conversation. Okay. So someone that, you know, that's also active on LinkedIn, and that. What I found is that just really gets it going. And before you know it, it's going crazy on LinkedIn. Because LinkedIn favors commenting and sharing.

Kyle: Yep.

Yohance: But if you comment, tag, and share, it's like 5x on a thing.

Kyle: Yeah, I noticed that. And just from sharing Some of the stuff last week, I think I haven't even had a chance to look, but I shared it, like, and this is good for me. I think I had like 1100 impressions in. Yeah. And I'm like, whoa, that's a big difference.

Yohance: So it's huge. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I. I've kind of. I'm not gonna say I cracked the code, but again, what's good for me, like 1100 is. Is a good day for me as well, but I've got a few that are hitting like the 10, 000 impressions. Like, whoa. But then I look and I go and inspect. Well, what happened? Oh, I called out this person, they called out that person, that. And before you know it, it's just huge. LinkedIn is like, oh, I guess people want to see this and they just push.

Kyle: Yeah. So, okay. Yep, I will definitely do that.

Yohance: Indeed. Well, I appreciate you. I'm record this intro and go do some real work.

Kyle: Sounds good. Thank you so much. I appreciate you.

Yohance: Thank you.

Kyle: See ya.

Yohance: See. Welcome to Only Human, a part of the Money Script podcast. So happy to be with each and every one of you today. Today I have a good friend of mine, Kyle debelle. He's the SVP of Think to. He's actually someone I've worked very closely with and getting my behavioral Financial advisor designation, something I did back in 2020. I'll talk about that a little bit on the show. But the BFA is. I mean, if you are a new advisor and you're trying to figure out how you can set yourself apart, especially in the age of technology and AI and all these tools that are coming into the financial advisory space, if you're not quite ready to take on the cfp, you don't think you really want to do the CRPC or the aaems, the ones that are more focused on the financial planning, I encourage you to do the one that's focused on the people, because this is a people business. At the end of the day, we're going to continue to use a lot of tech, but this is a people business. Consider the bfa. Yes, that's my commercial for that. I'm going to talk about it more. But Kyle is one of the leaders that think to perform and helps advisors connect with the BFA designation and on implementing the BFA and behavioral financial advice into all the things that you do. So we're going to talk about his journey with bfa. We're going to talk a little bit about a very touching story that he shares about his mother and and how he just gave me a call one day while I was on vacation, and I answered the phone, and it was the right thing to do. We had a great conversation while on vacation. I. I was a. I wanted to. I wanted to answer the phone that day. We had, we had a great talk. We're also, of course, we're going to talk about, you know, tech, and I'm going to hit him with the Mary divorce and date on the side. His answer is a little bit different than some of the other ones that you've heard, but I think that there's some of you out there that can definitely relate. So without any further ado, let's jump into this conversation with Kyle. See you soon. It.