A Conversation With Bill Cates

In this Only Human episode, Yohance Harrison talks with referral expert Bill Cates about what makes a financial advisor truly stand out in an AI-driven world. Bill shares why the future belongs to the transformational advisor — someone who does more than deliver a plan and actually helps clients change how they think, feel, and act around money. They cover cash flow management, client discovery, better referral conversations, and how to turn client value into real advocacy. Bill also shares the thinking behind his new book, The Hidden Heist, and how advisors can use money stories to create deeper client relationships

Referral Coach

The Hidden Heist

BillCates@ReferralCoach.com

Transcript

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Yohance: Mr. OG of referral marketing himself, the Bill, as I told you when I finally met you in person, I've been in the stands, in the audience of all of your work for years. And it was so exciting to meet you in person, so exciting to build this relationship with you. Thank you for coming on to the only Human podcast where we are helping advisors stay human in the world of ever increasing technology.

Bill: Oh yeah. And it's important and happy to be here. Thank you.

Yohance: What's crazy is that, Bill, you've been doing this for decades. I mean, I've been doing it for decades. I can say that too. Could I've been two decades, so I could say decades with an S. I've

Bill: just had more decades.

Yohance: Decades. And again, you're the OG for those that don't know, original gangster. But you are the original gangster of referral marketing. And again, you've been doing it for decades, but now you've started using a new phrase. And that phrase excites me because I feel that I'm living it as well. And it's this phrase you've coined as the transformational advisor. What do you mean by transformational advisor?

Bill: Well, it, to me it's the ultimate differentiator, particularly in this world where AI has taken over so much. And if you think about the evolution of the business a little bit, and I've seen, you know, a little further back than you have, but you know, it started out mostly kind of product oriented. Right.

Yohance: People being A shares and B, shared. Yeah, yeah.

Bill: A shares, B shares, munis, you know, other kinds of bonds, life insurance, disability insurance. And there's still some of that going on. And, and I'm not, I don't want to, you know, rain on anybody's parade or diss anybody what they're doing because all those product, the product oriented, the products do the financial work. Right. So there's nothing wrong with that. The, the problem, it's, it's become, it's pretty transactional. There's a little process involved sometimes, but it's pretty transactional. And in today's world, the transactional advisors is just not going to go that far, generally speaking. Right. There's always exceptions, of course. So then the next level is, you know, planning comes into play. So there's, we'll call it the process Financial Advisor. You know, life insurance has a process to it, of course, but more and more people are doing plans. Some plans are a little more robust than others and more valuable than others, but nonetheless, what, what the plan does, of course, is creates a Wider experience. And that's important because it's not usually the product that's going to make that advisor referable in the eyes of their clients. It's the experience that they go through. Now the products can be transformational, by the way. Experiences can be transformational as long as they last and persist. But what I'm going to is kind of a higher level. And that is, I'll call it the purpose driven advisor. The purpose driven process, where what we're really looking for and paying attention to is real transformation and change in our clients. And a lot of advisors are doing that anyway. They're not thinking of it that way. It's happening just by virtue of the good work that they do. But when you put a little bit of attention and intention behind it, then what happens is more and more of your clients are going to feel that transformation. They're going to feel that new identity. And that's what creates advocates, that's what creates those people that not only want to share your value with others, which is a big part of what the referral process should be, it should be about sharing your value. But they also want to help you because they believe in the purpose that you believe in. They believe in. In a bigger purpose in the work that you create for your clients. So that's kind of where I'm headed with this. I'm still learning to talk about it because it's going to be my new book and I'm still playing with it a little bit, but that's the essence of what I mean by this.

Yohance: What I'm hearing though is there's a. You harped on the advice process. And that's where I came. I came into the business as the major transformation was happening from products to advice driven financial services. And as a matter of fact, I was working at what was then American Express Financial Advisors, which was the leader at the time in this financial planning process. But it's interesting though, we would have internal conversations trying to remind advisors that the financial plan isn't just another product.

Bill: Correct.

Yohance: So what would you say is the difference of delivering advice or financial planning versus actually creating transformation?

Bill: Well, advice can create transformation. So a simple question can create transformation. Getting someone to sit down for the first time and finally take a look at their financial life and what needs to be done that can be transformational. It can be a wake up for people. We know we've made a trans transformation. When people can say, I used to be this and now I'm this, or I used to think this and now I think this or I used to feel this and now I feel this. Right? Any part of the transaction and the planning process, all that can be transformational for people. So I don't want to sell anybody short on this. Everybody's already in the game of transformation. So, yeah, you're right. The plan is not a product. The plan is a means to helping the clients achieve what they want to achieve. For me, the purposeful advisor, if I'm going to use that term, is someone who helps a client become the person they've wanted to be. And sometimes they don't even know what's possible for them to be. Right. So even then, waking them up to what's possible for them. So let me give you an example. Cash flow management, right? Not budgeting, but cash flow management. To me, it's an integral part of proper financial planning. Most advisors know about this, but they don't attend to it. But when one does attend to it and the client saving rate goes from 4% to 10% to even 15% or more, when you're paying attention to where the money's coming in and not just where it's going out at the end of the month, that can be transformational because all of a sudden someone has the opportunity to build wealth and create protection that they didn't think they even had before. So we know that when you put someone through a good plan, everybody wins. The client wins because their transformation to money into what's possible. You win because you build a better relationship with them. You capture more assets. All of the business side of things work as well. So you. Yeah, you can't see the plan as a product. You gotta see the plan as part of the. Of a bigger process.

Yohance: Well, Bill, you said something, though, that for some advisors, that's hard to do. It's hard to have those conversations about cash flow management, about income. Well, income strategy is probably the easier part, but it's the outflow part that becomes difficult for advisors. I mean, how do we step into that and own this idea of knowing how they say, beginning with the end in mind, knowing that if we can get through this, it can be transformational. And I know, like, I know you're working through this a bit, but now I'm just curious.

Bill: Yeah, yeah, I help others with it.

Yohance: I mean, how do I even begin to accept and know that I have that power to be transformational in something as simple as cash flow management? Cash flow.

Bill: So it starts with the advisor, meaning the advisor has to live into this idea of transformation. And it's the people that resonate with this conversation are the advisors who already have felt their own transformation in this process. And they, they believe in the idea of transforming clients lives and the family's lives and legacy planning and all of that. So certain people are attracted to this and the people that are attracted to this can be a little easier. I'd say it takes a little dose of courage if it's not something that you've done in the past. But here's a way to think about it. Most advisors, if they're doing a plan particularly, they'll talk about the dreams, the goals, the bucket list, they'll talk about that stuff. It kind of goes into the plan, it gets factored into a certain degree, but it almost never gets visited again. You know, I have coached so many advisors, I've interviewed them for my podcast and you know, I often ask them, does the plan, does the plan come out at every meeting or a lot of meetings at least once a year? And some say yes, some say no. Right. This plan should be a living, breathing document. So when you really find out what that client really would like, the dreams, the aspirations, and you keep those things alive and that's not hard to do, you just bring it up each time and then how do you help them with that? Well, it could be just, just keeping it alive in their awareness. That's part of it. It could be introductions to other resources that you know about. A book you come across, a website you come across that fits what that client wants, could be that. And then it's the funding part of those dreams. Because there's nothing worse than an unfunded dream. And so that's where cash flow management comes in a little bit. So the money comes in and hits the core account and a certain percentage goes to the dream account. Right. And so then all, so it's actually really pretty easy to do. You just have to want to do it. And, and, and you're going to attract the clients who like that about you, right? You're going to attract the clients who, who, who, who aren't just looking for a better return in the market. Right. If that's all they want. Well, okay, if you want to be a pure investment advisor and help them get good returns, that's fine. Nothing wrong with that. And the people that I'm speaking to, it's a little bit bigger than that. And I think in this world of AI, in this world of where we don't even know if what we're reading was written by a human, heck, we don't even know if what we're listening to sometimes right now was actually said by a human. This is where we can stand out. This, to me is one of the ultimate differentiators that truly, just to go with your pockets, truly humanizes the experience that at least at this point, AI can't do.

Yohance: Do you believe that this transformation process, advisors that are able to believe in it understand that their process can be transformative, understand how to have those conversations with the clients and look for those moments? It's almost similar to the referral moments that you wrote about a long time ago.

Bill: Yep.

Yohance: Do you believe that the, that advisors that can accept this and apply it can actually create more advocacy for themselves through their clients and through the process?

Bill: Yeah, no question about it. And so there's a, there's a couple of things to cover here real quick. First of all, and this is something I've been teaching forever around referrals, but now it fits into this is, first of all, pay attention to value recognizing statements. Pay attention to all the things the clients say to you. They, they thank you for clarity. They thank you, they feel better every time you talk. There's all kinds of the thank yous and appreciations and just don't take them at face value. But say, can you tell me a little more about that? So start being a little more curious about the value that people express to you and how's that showing up for you and what do you mean by that? And you could even say, wow, that, that, that feels like it's been a pretty transformative experience. Oh, are you kidding me? I used to do this and now I do that. Right? So paying, that's one forever. You know this about me. I've been teaching something called the value discussion. This is something we talk to our clients about on a fairly regular basis. We say, let's put the market aside, let's put the economy aside. You know, let's talk about what we can control, which is our communication, our overall working relationship. First of all, any place where expectations are not being met, now most of the time it's going to go to the positive stuff. But every now and then you fear it out. A little something needs to be done, but then you go to the positive, what is working. So I keep doing it for you and do it for others as well. And so those are two different points. The value recognizing statements and the value discussion is what brings that feeling of transformation to the fore for the client. Because there's neuroscience research that shows when you get your clients to actually speak out loud, or even a prospect to speak out loud. The value they feel they've gotten from the meeting or the process of the relationship, it becomes clearer to them and they get more in touch with. And that's where the transformation starts to get realized. And that's where the advisor is now intentional about this. So they're paying attention and so they're seeing where that happens, and they can start to replicate that for other people. Does that make sense?

Yohance: It makes a lot of sense. But I'm curious, should we be so bold as just to ask the client outright, has this process been transformational for you?

Bill: Oh, I, I, I, no, I probably wouldn't start with that.

Yohance: Okay.

Bill: I, probably that would be something that could come up in the conversation.

Yohance: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

Bill: You know what I'm saying? If some, some. So for, I'll give you an example just under the cash flow management one. I was interviewing a gentleman for a speech I'm giving coming up, and I always interview folks that are going to be in the audience. And he said to me, he said, a client said to him, Sorry, he said it to me, is that this has been transformational for me. I am now accumulating wealth that I never thought possible. Right. So just pay attention, probe a little be. Don't take what your clients say at face value. Just let them go a little deeper, let them peel back the onion a little bit more. And then there could be a time where you use a transformation. You don't have to say that, but it's them building their awareness and you building your awareness and, and then you see all the spots and then you realize what you're doing. And sometimes, I mean, this has happened to me for years. I'm sure it's happened for you. And how you educate your clients, because I know client education is a big thing for you, is people will say things to you and, you know, some, some little sentence that you said that for you was just natural. You didn't pay attention. It was transformative to them.

Yohance: True.

Bill: Right. So it's just, it's just about paying attention and being intentional. Now, one of the big areas that I wouldn't mind talking about today, if it's okay. That, I think is that does often take a little courage for some advisors and is very underutilized is the clients, the prospects and the client's relationship to money. And we know that every human being has a lot of crap when it comes to money. Right. We were brought up in an environment where maybe our parents fought about it, didn't Even talk about it. We're born with kind of a scarcity negativity bias that's part of our survival mechanism. So all that's going on, your clients are bringing that to you as an advisor.

Yohance: And sometimes dumping it on us.

Bill: Sometimes dumping it, sometimes creating resistance that's unspoken.

Yohance: To their own detriment, of course.

Bill: To their own detriment. But if we're not willing to go there and have a conversation with them, that we never may break them to the other side where they, you know, sometimes we got to save our clients from themselves. Right, True. And. But we have to be willing to do that. And so just simply having a conversation even early on, say, you know, I'm just curious about your relationship to money and the prospect or class. What do you mean by that? Well, you know what, how about your parents? What messages did you get from them? I'm curious because my parents, they fought about money. What is your, you know, and just slipping into that conversation a little bit and you start to see where their scarcity mindset may come from. Their fear may come from their. Look, we know even wealthy people have shame around money, have guilt around money. It's these emotions. No, no. Economic wrong on a ladder. Right. And so by having this kind of confirmation, a conversation. Sorry. And by changing your client's perspective around money, that's transformative. I mean, that is huge. Money intersects every aspects of our life. Advisors, clients, everybody. And when we shift our perspective, when we change that story, that self talk we tell ourselves, our life changes.

Yohance: That's transformative.

Bill: That's a huge area that I think is under underused by many advisors.

Yohance: Let's, let's go back to the advisor. Sure. And let's apply this transformation to the advisor's marketing habits.

Bill: Okay.

Yohance: And I've heard you mention in the past of how referrals and introductions are more of an event. But if we can get it over to the side of helping the client become an advocate, that also becomes in their identity. Can we talk about the transformation of the advisor of getting from this passive referral to advocate?

Bill: Yeah. So it's actually quite simple. Not always easy.

Yohance: Ah, okay.

Bill: All right. So the way the referral slash introduction. By the way, I believe that advisors should be using the word introductions with clients and centers of influence and prospects. But we'll, we'll use the word referrals too, as we talk. But the way it's been traditionally taught in this industry has been very advisor focused. Let me tell you. I get paid. I get paid in two ways. You worked With American Express, ids, American Express, now Ameriprise.

Yohance: Oh, man, you know, the whole thing.

Bill: Well, I worked with all three of those iterations and so that's how long I've been around. So. But they used to say I get paid in three ways, right? And the plan was one of those ways. So all about the advisor almost creating an obligation. This is how I get paid. When we really should be talking about the client and their experience and the value that they perceive. And so for a lot of folks that I've worked with over the years, sometimes it's just that flip of a switch in the brain and you realize, no, I don't make this about me and how I'm trying to build my business and how I like to meet people through referrals and how I get paid. No, this is how people want to meet their advisor. My value is worth sharing. And when someone believes their value is worth sharing. And let me give you one of the many common denominators or folks who are good with referrals is that they're kind of missionary around this. So they believe, and I believe this, that every human being on this planet deserves to make educated financial decisions that are in their best interest. Now, it doesn't mean you, as an advisor is going to serve every human being. You have your select folks that you want to work for, that's fine. But everyone deserves that. And to finish that phrase is that they wouldn't make without you. And that's the role. We are the guide. We are the person that comes in and gets people to question their status quo, to cut through their inertia. That's why we get paid the big bucks, is to move people from here to there. And so when we see that what we do as not helping us so much as really bringing our value to others, this process around referrals and introduction starts to get a little bit easier. I'll give you a very concrete example. One of my coaching clients, guy named Al, I won't give his last name, out in Jersey. That's as far as specifically, we're gonna find you, Al.

Yohance: We're gonna find you.

Bill: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm having dinner with Al actually in a couple weeks. But so when I met him, he was already pretty successful. He had $365 million under management. Right. He's doing pretty well. He's done pretty well. And. But we've been coaching for about 15 years now. In 2020, he went over the billion dollar mark. So he has over a billion. And here's what happened for him around this referral introduction process when he, it was a flip of the switch when he realized he didn't have to make it about him the old way, when he can make it about and in his very Jersey, New Jersey direct manner, you're seeing the value in the work. Yeah, 

great. Who's next? That's his ask, by the way, who's next? But that's what it's all about.

Yohance: Sounds very, very, very Jersey.

Bill: It is. And it's his style and he attracts people that appreciate that. And I'm not saying every advisor should do that. I have a lot of, I have actually much softer approach that I teach. But nonetheless that's the essence of it, right? It's let's. Who else needs to know about this important work? So when you, the advisors that I've coached and worked with and interviewed, when they see it about spreading the value to others, that's when advisors become more comfortable with this process. Right. They're more, a little more on that missionary side. Now what creates an advocate and who, what's a good advocate? So let me give you another example. John. He lets me get his name out. So John Landry as a coaching client and he did this value discussion that I talk about and his client said, well, I've told all my friends about you and John, you know, hasn't heard from any of those people. So this value discussion revealed that he had an advocate that he didn't know about. So that's part of the value of the value discussion. But what he had to do is he had to teach this person how to be an effective advocate. In other words, that word of mouth is nice but doesn't usually move people past their inertia because there's all kinds of reasons why even very smart successful people don't do this work. So you know, so what he had to do is teach this advocate how to be a better advocate. And, but that all comes, it has to come from that place of believing your value is worth sharing. This value discussion that I talk about is not fishing for compliments. The compliments will come, but fishing for compliments is self serving. This is helping your clients get in touch with the value so they feel better about the work. And you learn about how your work lands on people and then creates a dynamic where you can then leverage that for introductions to others.

Yohance: I just want to spend one more moment on that because I think this is very transformational for our listeners or advisors or any. By the way, you can be listening from any profession if you're, especially if you're in service, this is helpful to you. So if you made it this far and you realize that we've been talking about advisors, but you're like, wait a minute, could this apply to me? Yes. Can you give or will you give an example of how to. A question to ask to help extract that value statement from the client?

Bill: Yeah, I'll give you, I'll give you three examples, and I kind of gave you one a little bit, but let's focus on it a little bit more. So first of all, these have to be open ended questions. They 

can't be. Did you find today's meeting helpful?

Yohance: Sure.

Bill: Yes. It's not doing the work we need because we know from neuroscience that speaking it out loud and everybody's experienced that everybody's experienced. Just you could be driving in your car talking about a problem to yourself, speaking out loud. Or you grab a friend or a family member, say, I got to talk through this with you real quick. Right. And speaking out loud helps bring clarity. So open ended questions. All right. So it could be, let's say you're at a discovery meeting. It could be, you know, we've covered a lot of things here today. I'm just curious what stands out as the most important for you or we've talked about a lot of things. How would you prioritize what we've discussed so far or anything like that that applies to the context of the meeting. But open ended. And so they speak it out, they get more clear. You hear how what you do lands with them and that's helpful. Let's say someone decides to move forward and work with you. They decide to do a financial plan or go into underwriting or invest assets or whatever that may look like. You know, it could be what you've made an important decision, Yohance, and I respect it and think you made a good one. And I know we've had a lot to consider. I'm curious what, gosh, what tipped the scales? What made you decide to move forward? If you were interviewing more than me as an advisor, I could say, I know you've interviewed a couple of firms and I don't want to talk negative about anybody, but I'm curious what tips and scales for you. Right. So it could be that, that decision, now I'm reinforced. You're reinforcing your decision to move with me. That's good. I'm learning that's a leverageable moment. By the way. That's where we could promote or ask for introductions and a delivery Of a financial plan, delivery of insurance policy. We've been through a process to get to this point. I've asked you a lot of questions. You've been very forthcoming. I appreciate it. Very patient, yada, yada. Can you tell me what you feel about the process? What, you know, what stands out as beneficial to you about this. This long conversation we have, or finally a review, or I like to call it a progress meeting. You know, let's put the market aside, economy aside. Let's talk about, you know, what isn't working, what is working. So those are the different kind of scenarios of what that might sound like. And I recommend that you let your clients know either when you're planning the agenda beforehand and confirming the appointment or even at the beginning of the meeting, that this value discussion on the agenda. We're gonna check in. We're just gonna make sure communication's where it needs to be and expectations where it needs to be, so they get a little chance to reflect, even if it's unconsciously about it, so they're not put on the spot. When you have that conversation, they kind of know it's coming. You're gonna get better answers, you're gonna get deeper answers, more comfortable answers. When they know that that's part of how you do business.

Yohance: It sounds like that part of the transformation as the advisor, is, in a way, we have to continually stay in the discovery process.

Bill: Oh, yeah, yeah. Why wouldn't we?

Yohance: Well, no. Well, but that's. That's what I'm saying. And I. I can. I'm actually. I was reflecting on some meetings I've had recently where clients that I've had for quite some time, maybe they've referred in the past or they haven't. No matter. But the relationship, for all intents and purposes, is good.

Bill: Okay.

Yohance: I'm not gonna say it's great. I'm not gonna say it's poor. I'm saying it's good. It's good enough that they show up on time. I show up on time. We do the work that we have to do. But I find that sometimes even I have lost the discovery element, and I may not be as intentional with continuing to discover more about the feelings that my client is having and spending more time on just the facts of what happened and the. What we hope to be facts of what will happen as we talk about money movements and things of that nature.

Bill: Yeah, that's.

Yohance: That's what it's. That's what's resonating for me is. Is maybe is getting back to that discovery, because I like to ask the question. Every new client that I have gets asked the same question. Hey, how are you? All that fun stuff. And then the. When I'm getting into the meat of my presentation on a discovery, my first question is, why is money important to you?

Bill: Okay.

Yohance: And just let them talk.

Bill: Yep.

Yohance: And what comes out of that is a lot of the money habits, the money scripts, hence money script wealth management, the strategies and ideas, the fears and the hopes and dreams all around money that they have. And it can be very. I mean, they can. I'll let them go on because of course, once they say one thing or another, my response is always, tell me more about, fill in the blank and let them go. And I'm able to quickly determine whether or not this is someone I want to work with.

Bill: Well, that, yeah, you get a sense of who they are. It's true.

Yohance: Indeed. And so what I'm hearing from you is that if advisors can, again, getting back to the human, staying human, can remember that even though they already have the client and a lot of the work that they end up doing is very transactional, is very product driven, if they can remember to take a step back and go back to the value, go back to the feelings associated with the decisions that have already been made, you can continue to create these moments that will reveal the transformation that you as the advisor have been able to create. And then create a moment where you can feel, have the courage to then ask for the introduction. And you're right, it is an introduction. Introductions work so much. I only do introduction. I like it. Don't send me an email, somebody's name, introduce me. Because, yeah, it's just not, it's not going to work. You just send me a name. It's. It's not, it's not. It might, but it probably won't.

Bill: If I could add to that a little bit, I'd. I agree with, I agree with all of that. Also, I think when you learn about some of the feelings that, that, you know what, why is money important to you? And all of the various things that happen with that. And you learn about anxieties, you learn about whatever their emotions around money. And then, you know, you put a plan in place and they often feel a sense of relief, a little bit more clarity. So therefore a little more confidence, a little more peace of mind. But you know, those emotions that they brought at that first meeting, those don't go away. Usually they become, you know, a little more latent perhaps, but they're still with that client. And that, that sense of peace of mind and clarity doesn't always last just because you did the plan. Right. That's why revisiting the plan, that's why saying, you know, when you, we first got started, you felt a little anxious. You know, how, how's that going? How's the feel? Well, it's subsided a little bit, but it's still there a little. And, and so they feel heard, they feel respected, they feel listened to. So that's part of that. But I would also add that are you continuing to get to know your clients further, not just on the deeper emotional level, but just their life in general? Right. Are you having conversations about their vacation, about their children, about all of that? Because here's what happens. The more you begin just, just being a curious person about your clients. And you know, you usually have a little chit chat at the beginning of a meeting anyway. But going a little further with that, since money intersects every aspects of one's life, every. When you learn what's going on in their life and various things, there could be an opportunity to serve them in some way that just wouldn't have come up had you not probed a little bit and got a little more curious. This is why it's also very valuable when you can, to meet your clients outside of your office or their office, meet in a neutral area, break bread together, whatever that might be. Because even walking them to the car, because sometimes out of that business context or environment, other things come into the conversation that weren't brought up before. They, maybe they, you know, the client didn't think it was important or relevant to the conversation with you as their advisor, but it could be totally relevant once you know about it. So that's, that's a case to always remain curious and get to know a little. You're a little bit more like, if your attitude is, what can I learn about my client today that I didn't know before going in? Right. You know, how can I be just a little more curious about something that comes up in conversation? And they feel listened to, they feel cared for, and it's not a gimmick, it's a genuine thing. And then you deepen the relationship and sometimes that will make you more referable. Sometimes you'll see other opportunities to capture assets or, or serve them in some financial way. Absolutely.

Yohance: Yeah. I've learned just to end on that because we have to talk about your new book and I know we're almost on time here, but I, I was so honored to play a small role in it. We got to talk about a little bit, but.

Bill: All right, sorry.

Yohance: Just one other thing that I want to share on that, Bill, because you're absolutely right, and I give the. I give a lot of credit to the growth that we've seen at Money Script wealth and the referrals that we receive, by the way, we are, if I had to do the math, is probably around 95 referral. And the ones that aren't referred to us, there's a couple that come off the Internet, of course, but the other ones that aren't referred to us are also from an event I was referred to.

Bill: Yes.

Yohance: Because I'll go to events, but, you

Bill: know, I don't call still the human connection. There's still a human element.

Yohance: And I've found that, Bill, that when you are able to truly connect with clients and learn something new about them, they will, for the most part, at some point in the conversation, talk about other people that you don't know.

Bill: Mm, yeah, sure.

Yohance: Because they'll say, we went on a vacation. Oh, where'd you go? We went to Hawaii. Oh, really? Tell me more about which island did you go? Oh, and it said, oh, well, my brother this, or my sister this, or we have a friend or whatever it is. They'll. They'll start to tell you about these other people that are in their lives. That if you have the courage and if you want to just ask for the direct introduction, you can bring that person up again. Say you mentioned your brother seems like a great guy. Would you be open to introducing me to him? If you want to have that courage or what will happen, or the other thing that will happen is the next time that they are with their brother, sister, fill in the blank, your name might come up. And that's. That's where I. That's the space I live in. I've got to the point where I don't have to ask as much about, will you introduce me to this person? It's just, we'll talk about someone so much and I'll just let it sit there and then fast forward a week, two weeks later. Oh, I was with so and so again, your name came up. I'm going to send them your way. I'm going to introduce. Introduce you. And that's because I gave them the space to just talk about that person and bring mine, bring their name into our conversation so that somehow the universe just works out that my name shows up in their conversation. Because like I said, money's going to intersect everything.

Bill: Yeah. And some advisors, they want to go Straight to the work. And they do the work and they don't think about that and they feel like that could be wasting time, but it's not wasting time. The worst case of what happens, that it's just the client feels listened to and they just feel better about you.

Yohance: Exactly.

Bill: So if they want to refer you, they do it because of your value, but also because they like you. So that's the worst thing that happens when you have these conversations. But you're right. Sometimes you identify. Folks, if I could tweak that language just a little bit. What you said is perfect. And to make it just a hair softer, some.

Yohance: Some advice.

Bill: Referral Coach.

Yohance: Here it comes.

Bill: Well, it's just so, you know, you mentioned your brother sounds like a great guy. You know, assuming we came up with an approach that feels comfortable to everybody, would you. Would you be open to discussing a possible introduction to him? So I'm always using the word comfortable, an introduction in the same sentence or next to each other. I'm asking for little yeses. I'm not saying would you be willing to introduce me? I'm asking, would you, assuming we make it comfortable, would you be willing to talk about a possible introduction? So it's a. It's a little softer entree. It's not quite as direct. And a lot of advisors and clients will feel more comfortable with that slightly softer approach. And always, always when you're saying introduction, either say comfortable introduction or just have the word comfortable in the sentence. You know, if we can find a way for you to introduce me in a way that feels comfortable or if we can craft a comfortable introduction because people have had bad experiences and people fear an uncomfortable introduction.

Yohance: True.

Bill: And so let's just. Let's kind of handle that a little bit in a simple phrase.

Yohance: I appreciate that. Good, good advice. Thank you, coach.

Bill: Yeah, man.

Yohance: Let's talk about the hidden heist. So, as I mentioned, I. Ah, there it is. There it is.

Bill: Blatant self promotion.

Yohance: Oh, please do. I. I was fortunate enough to be in the lucky group of individuals that had a. A first read and loved it. I mean, sat down and read it all in one sitting. Couldn't put it down because it's one of those books that it's. Well, first of all, I'm. And we were talking before the show started about the things we were watching on television. Bill was reminding me again, like others have reminded me actually on this show about watching the Pit. I'll get to it, but I'm trying to get through Homeland. But I love the Espionage. You Know the story, the suspense story where I'm trying to solve it at the same time, maybe I've solved it, but I know that the characters haven't yet. I was like, I want to see how the characters are able to solve this. And so I get into those a lot. So the hidden heist had that feel for me. But I'm just out of curiosity, can you give us the plug on the book? Of course.

Bill: But.

Yohance: But how did you end up with a story about a heist while you're the referral coach and financial plan? Like, it, it seemed, it seemed like way out of left field if I was like, I don't know what Bill's writing about here, but let's see where it goes. And it landed. It did eventually. But. But how did you decide that that was going to even be an okay topic to write about?

Bill: Yeah, so it's, it's, in a way, it's a little bit of legacy work in the sense that I've been in this industry for almost 34 years. You know, I've helped advisors bring in billions of dollars. I've learned how money works. And I've come to the, that, you know, realization, as I mentioned earlier, that everyone deserves to make educated decisions. And if everyone in this world understood money a little bit better and understood their relationship with money a little bit better, a lot of problems would be solved. A lot of things would go easier. I mean, it doesn't fix everything, but it sure would help a whole lot. And so that's now become kind of a mission. So I wanted to bring out a book that would help people with their, Their self talk around money. And by the way, you know, it's not just advisors, clients. The clients have their, I mean, advisors have their own stuff around money. Their team members have their stuff around money that could be holding the practice back. And so. All right, so that was the goal. And I, I know that stories are very powerful that we can learn from stories and parables have been around forever. You know, it's part of the Bible, of course, teaching through parables and stories. But I. There's a lot of parable books out there and they're all.

Yohance: This is.

Bill: There's some good ones, there's some, some bad ones. But I wanted one that had, that would hold the reader and where you couldn't quite figure out what was going to happen. Because most parable books, you can kind of predict where they're headed now. You don't mind finding out how they get there, but it's predictable I want something unpredictable.

Yohance: I, I knew the tortoise was going to beat the hare the first time I heard.

Bill: Exactly, exactly. Thank you.

Yohance: I know this guy.

Bill: And by the way, that's a fable because that's, that's animals. Just people don't know this. Animals and parables are humans.

Yohance: There you go. Did not know that.

Bill: All right. Most people don't. I didn't know until I started doing this book. But in any event, so, so it centers around a bank, Robbie. And, and by the way, the, the subtitle, it's the Hidden Heist. Stop Robbing Yourself of Lasting Wealth. And, and the point is that the, the, the, the broken money stories, the self talk, unproductive self talk, and emotions that people have robbed their current and future self of wealth. And so bank robbery. But it's the first line of the story and is. All right, everybody face down on the floor, right? And those are the three robbers that come in. Now they're bumbly robbers, so there's a lot of comic relief too. But so it's a mix of the story and figuring how these bumbly robbers going to get out of this, how they're going to talk their way out through SWAT and whatnot. And then what happens is the hostages are in the vault. And turns out that Alden Beckett is a financial advisor. And one of the hostages, you know, why are they robbing this bank? Another guy said, well, they're just trying to get theirs, right? And they, that person sees money as a zero sum game. And so all these beliefs start to come out. And the book is based on over a hundred money story interviews that I've conducted. We have also interviewed two bank robbery hostages. We interviewed a hostage negotiator. So all of this is based on some reality of how people think and what they've been through. And then there's some twists and turns that people don't expect at the end. And so how advisors are using the book, the hidden heist, is some just get a copy for themselves and just reflect on it. Some will buy a couple of copies for their team because they want their team members, their support team, to also have a better relationship with money. Because sometimes you've got employees, you've got team members that they have their own stinking thinking around money, and that holds the practice back, and you don't want that. But ultimately what that does is creates a conversation that builds empathy for the clients. And so this people are using the book, giving it to their clients, in some cases for their clients to give to their Adult children. So they get some of the stuff earlier in their life. But anyway, it's a soft way to then get into this conversation around money beliefs, money stories. What did you grow up with? How do you feel now? How's that changed? You know, and so for. Particularly for advisors who aren't natural, you're natural at this, right? You titled your practice, right? Money script, right? So that came to you naturally. But most advisors, it doesn't. So a tool like the Hidden Heist allows them to get into that conversation. And many of the folks that have done that said they're having deeper, more meaningful conversations with their clients. And, and it has become transformational because in a lot of cases, their clients have transformed their attitude and perspective and knowledge around money. They become better clients for the advisor. They're saving more money, they're easier to, you know, convince to move in a different direction. All of that just everything gets better when you have that conversation around money beliefs with your clients. So some are using hidden heist as just a tool, a mechanism to get into that conversation.

Yohance: Now, this book, I know where I got my copy from you personally at a conference. So this book, it's. We can put a link to it in the show notes so there's a place they can go download and order. I mean, this is an advisor podcast. So do you have any bulk opportunities?

Bill: Yes. So, so to learn about the book itself, the Hidden Heist, just go to thehiddenheist.com and we have it on audio, by the way, if you like to listen, because it's a story and there's characters. We hired a professional book actor to bring the whole thing to life.

Yohance: Now I want to go listen to that. Oh, I, I consume audiobooks. Like.

Bill: Well, I will send you a link, Yohance. But anyway, so, so yeah, we just shoot me an email bill katesferralcoach.com or connect with me on LinkedIn and say, hey, I'm interested. How might I use it? What's the bulk price? And happy to have a conversation and see if it makes sense.

Yohance: Now, where's the. I'm sure you've got a little book tour going on. Where's the next place that you will be speaking?

Bill: Well, I'm not sure when this is coming out.

Yohance: This is. It'll be out for the end of the month. So tell us where.

Bill: Yeah, yeah, well, I'll tell you. Actually, I'm doing a kind of a neat thing and it is around this cash flow management thing. I stumbled upon this group. I think I actually got referred to this group or introduced. And the, the, the tool that these folks use, it's called Currents. C U R R E N C C U R R C E. I

Yohance: think I've seen them on LinkedIn. Okay.

Bill: Yeah. And so Live Currents is the website live Current?

Yohance: Yes, yes, I have. Yes.

Bill: So I'm speaking at the end of July in Nashville, and if anybody's interested, I can give you a link that'll save you 600 bucks. But in any event, it's all folks who have bought into this of how really attending to cash flow management properly can be transformational. A clear win, win for the client and the advisor. So my talk, they've asked me to come in and help them become better at how they talk about the value. I'm pulling from my book Radical Relevance. We're going to talk about their value proposition. We're going to talk about transformation. We're going to talk about how can they talk about their value in a more compelling, relevant way and also get their clients to talk about them in a more meaningful way to others. So to help them create better, more effective advocates. So that's kind of the work I'll be doing with that group. I'm very excited about that because I believe in the concept and I think it's going to be a lot of fun.

Yohance: I. I believe in it as well. You might. I got a lot of stuff happening in July, but, yeah, send me that link. I'd like to learn a little bit more about that.

Bill: I will, I will.

Yohance: Yeah, I did. I would. I do. And, and Bill, thank you so much for, number one, just being a Yes. I cannot remember how we finally made each other's acquaintance. Maybe it was crossing paths somewhere in the world.

Bill: No, I saw something you wrote. Oh, that's LinkedIn. I said, I want to interview this guy for my podcast.

Yohance: Oh, that. It was. Yes, you did come to me. I. Well, thank you for getting me to be your yes and yes. I remember now because I got the email and I thought it wasn't real. I was like, is Bill Cates actually emailing me? No, can't be true. But yeah, Bill.

Bill: Kids. Yeah.

Yohance: Yeah. Wow. So I appreciate it. Oh, and quick, funny story, and I'm sure you've heard something funny like this before. So every week, my team and I, we sit down and we go through all the meetings of the week, and one of my team members was out, and so someone else had to step into that role. And she was reading things quickly, and she came to this podcast in my calendar and she said, you're interviewing Bill Gates. Yeah. And I said, not yet.

Bill: But working our way up, starting with

Yohance: Bill Cates instead gets me one step closer. So I want to appreciate you, sir, for getting us one step closer to interviewing Bill Gates. Because just one letter.

Bill: I missed it by one letter. And a couple of bucks. That's all.

Yohance: A couple of bucks. Just a couple of them. But thank you so much. And for, for all of our, all of our folks that, that tuned in to today's talk with Bill Cates. I do encourage you to do the industry a favor no matter what industry you're in. Because like I said, this conversation transcends, transcends across many different industries, especially those that are in a service based industry where you're dealing directly one on one with the customer and you want to build deeper, longer lasting, more transformational relationships. Find someone that is new in the career that you are in and send them a link to this episode.

Bill: Yeah. Great.

Yohance: Because if they can pick up some of these things early on, it will not only make it a better situation for their clients, it's going to make it a better situation for that individual and I truly believe a better situation for the entire economy. So with that, we will see you next time on Only Human. Oh, I got a lot of recordings coming up. I am booked. Crazy. By the way, you probably Heard was on LinkedIn, passed the CFP a few months ago. So now I'm back to recording again. Yay. So here we are. We've got a lot more episodes to come. Thank you again to Bill Cates and we will see you next time.

Bill: All right.

Yohance: Perfect.

Bill: Went a little long. You okay with that?

Yohance: I'm okay with it. My guys can chop it up. No, it was great. No, you were. I'd. I didn't want to stop you. It was. What happens sometimes is I get into these and I selfishly start learning myself because, you know, I'm on an island. I'm an independent practice owner. So I don't have. There's no senior advisor down the hall that just go knock on his door and say, hey, want to go grab lunch?

Bill: Right.

Yohance: So this becomes my, my own selfish mentoring time.

Bill: So. So a couple quick things and I know we're close to the top of the hour. Number one, at some point I would like to do a quick 15 minute or some interview of you for the book just to talk about this idea of transformation, you know, you kind of reflected in this interview. But I want to just use you as one of my resources to run these ideas by, if you don't mind, and maybe even come up with an example or two that you've seen with your own clients. Because I, I want the book to be based on reality of what's, what's really happening. What do advisors do different, think do different. So that's one thing. And then if, you know, this is the kind of interview that I would really like to get behind and not just support you when you promote it. But I don't know if you're open to sending me the file or something that I could post it on my YouTube channel, say, less done. I think it's good for everybody and definitely helps me get the message out. So if you're open to that, I would. That's something I'd like to do.

Yohance: I, I would be more than happy to do that. Actually. The last interview I did, we did that and it went extremely well. And I, I think that's. I actually, I'm glad you brought it up because now that it's happened twice, I'm just going to start offering that especially.

Bill: And I don't do it with all the interviews, but this is. I've done it with a couple and this is one that I want to it for both our sakes.

Yohance: So, yeah, I just, I want to go back to when we have that conversation about transformation, the moment that I had mentioned, because that was a genuine moment in the trend, the idea of staying in discovery mode because we talk about discovery meeting and then, you know, strategies, and then you're taking action, whatever, and then you have these review sessions. But it's like, how do I purposely stay in discovery mode for at least, you know, 10 minutes, or call it 20 or whatever the number is of every client meeting. So that's, that's what I'm taking away from it and just being a little bit more intentional about that, because after 25 years, I have clients that I've had for 25 years. It can get very transactional from the client's end and from my end. So if I can just be a little bit more. And again, we're also talking about clients that have referred dozens. It's so easy to get transactional with them.

Bill: Yeah, true.

Yohance: And, and, and if I can be more methodic about my discovery mode, I think that that's going to just deepen that relationship. And it may be a situation where I haven't got a referral from that person in a while. But if I can kind of get back to that, that's probably why they were referring to me in the beginning. So.

Bill: Yeah, y agree. Cool. All right, man. Always a pleasure.

Yohance: Thank you, sir. Soon.

Bill: Yeah, we'll talk to you soon.

Yohance: All right. Thank you. Yeah.

Bill: Bye. Bye.

Yohance: Welcome to Only Human podcast. It's your host, Yohance Harrison. So happy to be with each and every one of you today. Decided to mix things up a little bit. So I'm gonna do a short intro before we get into the interview just so I can get everything out about that person so you can learn about them. Because I find that sometimes I'm so excited to interview them, I don't get a chance to really let you know who I'm interviewing. So my guest today is the OG of referral marketing. He is who I learned a lot of my referral habits from. I know that I've been on dozens of stages all across the United States talking about my strategies around how to build a repeatable referable practice. Well, here's the truth, guys. I learned 90% of it from him. I just made it my own. Something that worked for me. But the core of it has come from Bill Cates. That's right, Bill Cates. He has been working with financial Advisors for over 30 years. Accelerate their growth through increasing their marketing and doing it without using more marketing budget. So using this approach, listen advisors, hundreds, if probably not thousands of advisors have been multiplying their best clients through introductions and learning how to communicate their value a lot more effectively. Now Bill has written or I think eight books, things working on ninth now everything from the language of Referrals, which is what I know from, I don't know, 20 years ago, radical Relevance. And then his most recent book, which I got a advanced copy on, which was very excited to do the Hidden Heist, which is incredible. It takes a blend of, you know, a heist, you know, bank robbery type situation, but also woven into there some financial stories and financial money scripts and things of that nature that I'm sure you're going to love. So he is the founder of the the Kat's Academy for Referral shooting. He is the founder of the Kat's Academy for Relationship Marketing. He's also the host of the Top Advisor podcast which I had the pleasure of being on a few years ago. And that podcast is ranked top four, 3% globally. So hey, we've got a real treat for you to hear today. So let's get started with our interview with Mr. Bill Cates.